With all the current events happening across college campuses, we’re spotlighting a student (referred to as S.) and their perspective on social media, censorship, news and law enforcement’s response to the demands students and faculty alike are making.
Transcript
00:00
So with that in mind, I'm very curious to know in terms of your current outlook on the media landscape, specifically traditional media landscape, you know, where do you see them fall short in the coverage of these current events that are happening across these college campuses? I think it's a joke. It's very biased.
00:28
It's inaccurate. It's embarrassing. I don't really follow most typical news outlets because they don't really frame the reality of these events in a truthful way. It's biased. Okay. As far as you can tell, why do you think they go so much out of their way to misrepresent what you yourself
00:57
you see from a firsthand account basis.
01:06
The state of journalism is a bit rough right now.
01:12
journalists barely make any money. I think that comes out of money and who owns these media outlets, who they answer to.
01:22
I don't know, like the big man at the top of the chain, he's gonna love it if they have like vested interests in the very thing that you're reporting on. I guess it's more beneficial to frame these protests in a way that makes people not support them and say, oh, these are.
01:48
like, oh, those crazy kids on college campuses, like rioting these crazy liberals or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. It's just better for them than not have anyone support these kids. And as far as you specifically, what are your grievances in terms of not only what leads you to speaking out about these issues today, but similar issues that have occurred in the past?
02:21
Well...
02:24
Across the board.
02:28
I just don't like the world that I am inheriting. And I mentioned this earlier, but I and many, many people of my generation do not want society as is. We don't want... It's really disheartening, you know, to grow up seeing everything go to hell.
02:58
and then be told, well, it's your problem now. I mean, so many peers don't even think they're gonna have kids. And not because they don't want to have kids, but because they don't think that this country, and when you're talking about this country, you really mean like the world at large, considering how much of an influence America has. Don't want like...
03:26
I don't know, to be, your children to be raised here. It's, we grow up doing school shooter drills. We see how many school shootings are on the news constantly. Why would we like grow up and subject children to the same thing? You know, I just think everyone's fed up and it's a lot easier to be fed up when you are on social media and you have access to the internet and you can see other regular people.
03:55
just regular citizens of the world sharing their own direct firsthand accounts of what they experience at the hands of the United States of America. I've been seeing photos and videos of mutilated children, just graphic, graphic, horrific imagery for months. And the stuff that stays with me the most is just like...
04:25
grieving mothers is just people in so much pain. I think I saw something about how PTSD doesn't even work anymore for the people of Gaza, for Palestinians, that's not even like a real, it doesn't work to treat them through a PTSD-minded framework, they literally are not post the trauma, they're in the trauma, which is horrific.
04:54
It's horrific to think about. How do you even begin to treat trauma like that when they're still living through it? Actually, as far as you can tell from your perspective as a someone who is internet savvy and also knows how to navigate it in general in terms of seeking information, what places would you deem the most beneficial in terms of
05:24
not only finding information that's relevant to the current issue at hand, but also finding communities specifically who are in some way should perform involved in boosting the message of what's going on.
05:46
invaluable right now. These encampments, these student protests are run by campus organizations that have student, like that have Instagram accounts and they'll post on there. They'll tell you what they need, what they're looking for. They'll tell you like the schedules, what they're planning on doing. They're pretty transparent because they have to be right. Because like where you're saying these media outlets, they frame
06:14
They're framing these student protests as if it's just like a bunch of crazy, violent rioters when that's not the case. I think Instagram is great. I would say Twitter, except Twitter hasn't really been what it used to be in the last like year or so. But I also think that it's there. Like the information is there if you just know where to look. And I guess the funny thing about algorithms is once you start following these accounts, you'll get more of it. Now, if we're talking more like,
06:44
direct organizing, not necessarily just like updates and mass like public booths, you'll probably still find a way to connect with people like through external applications outside of like Instagram and Twitter from Instagram and Twitter. Like I am part of several like group chats and channels on Signal and Telegram.
07:14
Okay, so the other thing that personally I was curious to ask you about was your thoughts on the era of 2001 onward, because it seems to me that a lot of the current sentiment in terms of the apathy of what the Palestinian people are dealing with, in a lot of ways trace as far as you're concerned.
07:42
How do you remember that era specifically? And if you don't remember anything, what particularly stood out to you from that time?
07:54
Well, I don't. I mentioned that I graduated from college a couple of years ago. I was two when 9-11 happened. I did grow up in the Tri-State area on the East Coast. So I grew up in the aftermath of 9-11 geographically and chronologically, time-wise.
08:24
I don't remember 9-11 itself, but I remember growing up and feeling this like almost tangible fear amongst a lot of neighbors and like family friends and the sort. It was an interesting dynamic because, well, yeah, my family was...
08:55
like brown people in the tri-state area during 9-11 and after 9-11. So it was, you couldn't really ignore it, how it was affecting the community and how it was affecting just. On the one hand, everyone says it brought America together, but on the other, for families like mine, it divided us. It, it, it divided us further from.
09:25
other Americans? If you want to, if you would like getting into specifics of what exactly you've dealt with in terms of the negative aspects of the fallout of 2001, you can choose to be as aggressive as you want, I don't know, since kind of the importance of this, but one, okay, whether it's, you know, examples dealing with people or...
09:53
institutions, I wouldn't be very keen as to know the testimonial about that. Yeah, it's just like the specific kinds of events that I've seen. Like things that are definitely- More show the negative aspects of what you have personally dealt. You know, like how have you been treated, you know, as someone, would it be correct to refer to you as a wrong person? Yeah. Okay. Um.
10:24
Well, I mean, I've been called a terrorist so many times. I don't even have a decent number for you. I luckily I don't have. I mean, fortunately and unfortunately, because I benefit from colorism and I'm not immediately seen, like immediately clocked as a person of color. Well, I guess I can be clocked as a person of color, but maybe not necessarily like.
10:50
Middle Eastern, South Asian, like, you know, I look a little more ambiguous, but I have had my fair share of experiences like dealing with, I don't know, being called a terrorist. One of those like always like randomly selected people at TSA, although I will say my family, like my, the men in my family do experience that a lot more than I do.
11:19
Um.
11:22
Yeah, it's I do feel like 9-11 opened up the door to a lot of vitriol against people that look like me. And it doesn't even I mean, it doesn't even matter to us white Americans, whether you're from the right country or not, that they're trying to be racist about. The average racist won't care about that. They're like super mega racists are very well versed. But like the average racist won't be. So
11:51
we all just kind of fall under an umbrella. Yeah. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I haven't had anything over super drastic. It's just this like consistent mild undercurrent that I've felt.
12:11
So I'm sure you've heard of instances where so-called nationalist groups, you know, whether affiliated with the Nazi party or overt folks who stand with this idea that invaders are coming and stuff like that. What are your thoughts in terms of these people and how they get treated on the grand scheme of things, especially when it comes to the context of
12:40
public demonstrations and you know what they're allowed to do in public. So it could be ranging from anything from say having a sign of some kind that reads you know racial slurs or them making you know the Nazi salute and stuff like that and that being allowed to go unpunished or unchallenged in public. What are your thoughts about that? I have...
13:07
My thoughts on that is that, well, obviously there's a double standard. The actual white supremacist rally in, I think it was West Virginia, a few years ago, that did result in a protest, a counter-protester dying, I'm pretty sure, did not face as much police crackdown and military response as I think
13:36
BLM and these student encampments, like Palestinian encampments right now. So there is a double standard. I think.
13:47
You know, there's always going to be like this muddy, like, oh, free speech argument, right. But I think that argument can be made and those kinds of demonstrations still be cracked down on because they are. They do out more violent and threatening rhetoric than. Like, BLM and pro Palestine, it's just like you just hear what people are saying.
14:16
Um, I like had never heard anyone at either of the two major like organising events, I guess, of my adult life, ever say something like extreme, you know, like nowhere at any point. And I was at a lot of protests in Los Angeles during Black Lives Matter. I was like, you know, I would come home to like sleep and that was pretty much it. I went to a lot of those and not once.
14:45
that I hear anything violent or threatening. These student protests, to me it feels like needless to say, but it still needs to be said. Nobody's saying anything anti-Semitic. In fact, a huge number of these gatherings include Jewish students and Jewish people. It's a lot of Jews at these. And no one's ever saying anything violent about one group. It's always about liberation.
15:15
and freedom for one group and safety and security for one group. Yeah, but then you have Nazis who say kill all Jews and white supremacists and KKK members just proudly going around expressing views that do call for violence, that are threatening. Very blatantly so, and they don't really face any repercussions.
15:43
I do think that's probably because the same people that would be cracking down on them are them. But I do think a lot of police officers are involved in these things. Yeah, I don't know. It's just, I don't think, I guess.
16:05
Free speech is free speech up until a certain point, until you get threatening. I still think you can be like, yeah, they're allowed to, they're allowed the right to free speech. But then I think the argument immediately like loses any credibility because they are just so, so, so. Their baseline is violent. The Zionists, the Zionists that are counter protesting currently, UCLA, they're violent. There was a,
16:34
Oh man, I don't remember what university it was, but a couple days ago there was someone carrying an Israeli flag. He showed up at a pro-Palestine protest, screamed, kill the Jews, and got a bunch of other pro-Palestinian organizers arrested. But it was like an Israeli person with an Israeli flag. It was a Jewish person saying that about Jewish people.
17:03
Like it was very bizarre. It was a Zionist. I should clarify. It was a Zionist saying that about Jewish people at large, which was really only meant to like agitate. But yeah, I don't know. OK, so specifically regarding.
17:21
the events happening currently and the response of the general public. Especially on social media, I'm glad you brought up speech because a lot of the current undertone, especially on Instagram, it seems to me that different types of factions, depending on where they lie, tend to suffer from what's called shadow banning.
17:48
So I'm curious to know on your end as far as you can tell, have you experienced anything and if so, what would you say would be the best way to circumvent that issue? Like shadow banning on social media, do you mean? Yes. I feel like I definitely have been shadow banned. I don't know, my posts get a lot less likes and views. I did lose like a big chunk of followers when I started posting about Palestine. I was posting.
18:18
like pro-Palestinian stuff, like literally on October 7th. And the climate, I mean, I don't know, you probably did, were involved in the, you saw, I'm sure it was not very pro-Palestinian back in October, back in early October, even November or December. It was a lot harder and I lost a bunch of followers and I did start to notice like,
18:46
my story views decreasing when I did posts about Palestine. And they were long, my story. So like, maybe it was just people naturally getting bored, but I do just not watching them as much. Yeah. But it also went back up when I would post like something from the camera feature. So if I was posting on my Instagram story, like a bunch of people, graphics or like opinions and stuff that I've written now.
19:15
and like photos for my camera roll adds one thing, but then as soon as I would take a picture directly on my Instagram story, it would, I don't know, numbers would start picking up again. So that would lead directly into my follow-up then, which is the situation regarding TikTok. How do you feel about it? What are your thoughts in terms of the government stepping in to basically regulate foreign owns?
19:43
Because technically it is foreign owned, but to be very specific and clear here, all in one way, well, if we go and get into the statistics of, you know, who has a vested interest in the company, there are different types of corporate bodies spread across, you know, China, Europe, and including the US that actually have position of leadership at the company, especially those that are more so based out of China.
20:13
The main ones for sure that would be the one behind the, the, the Enshine ones they call their app, Dewey again, it's like how they pronounce it. So these are the people that effectively all are the same, everything else, but yeah, I say currently the U.S. is basically saying they ding ding ding U.S. based and quartering, they need to turn over control back to the U.S. You know, why don't you talk to you about that?
20:42
Um, I mean, I think it's on a
20:52
greater like societal scale, like it's raw. Like I disagree. I don't think the TikTok ban is, I mean, it was just like hypocritical. It's just because it's a foreign country spying instead of America spying on Americans. To be quite honest, I'm not fully versed in the TikTok bill. I don't know enough information to where I feel like I can speak on it without,
21:22
confidence knowing like all my information is correct. I do know that it's like
21:29
Not. I was seeing some of the like hearings and the what am I referring to? There was something I just well, anyway, I don't feel I know enough about it to like fully speak on it confidently, but I do like obviously like, I don't know. I disagree. I think a ban on TikTok is a very slippery slope, as is a lot of what's happening right now. I just think it's a slippery slope into a fascist state.
22:00
show to clarify the mistake of people who would like to know what you're referring to. When you say fascism, what do you, what is that?
22:15
Like what does it mean for America? So in the context of what you've said, and you've said that it is a slippery slope in a slashing state. So could you elaborate exactly on what that means for the sake of both people who perhaps are not as familiar or well versed or people who are outside of the US specifically? Yeah. Well, I mean, the United States is like...
22:45
I guess a democracy right now, right? Supposedly. Arguably. But
22:54
Yeah, I don't really know if there are very many differences between the Democrats and Republicans anymore. I think that's not really a, it's not that controversial. I do think people are waking up to the fact that the Democratic Party is not as left as they would have you believe. I think with a ban on TikTok, with these lines of communication being banned or...
23:23
overly regulated, we do get to a point where we can't talk to each other. We can spread information that circumvents false narratives perpetrated by the media, the media that is run by a select few puppeteers or whatever you want to call them. I think once we do that, it's a lot easier to
23:53
I mean, fascism is like an authoritarian, ultra-nationalist ideology.
24:05
It really does feel like we're headed there. I feel kind of sometimes like gaslit into thinking or feeling like that maybe fascism is an exaggeration and that's not really the case. It's not that serious, but I don't know. I see what I see on the ground and I'm seeing things that point to fascism.
24:35
We could... Deep sports? Or racism, right? Go ahead. Or racism, correct? Oh, of course. I mean racism, yeah, of course. Racism 100%. That's, yeah. Okay. And would you consider yourself safe in North America then? Safe in America? Or safe in North America in the context of... You don't have to go into specifics because you did mention that you were brown.
25:05
And you'd like to refer to us such, but do you consider yourself safe? Considered, you know, everything you've said so far. Do you, do you consider that you can go about your business, go about your day, reasonably expecting any, any blowback or threats and for any kinds.
25:30
I guess I don't feel as though I'm a big enough presence to warrant anything, but I also don't feel like 100% safe. I am very vocal about my views online and to my friends and before this it wasn't an issue because like I don't really make it a practice to be in the company of racists or friends with racists.
26:00
But I did have a lot of Jewish friends that were Zionists that did unfollow me or I think might still probably be following me even though they disagree. So I do think about it. I don't entirely like a hundred percent feel safe. But I personally, I don't feel like I have a big enough platform for like genuine threat, but I don't entirely feel safe.
26:29
Would you say in terms of the communities that you've navigated, both in the academic context, but also in a day-to-day context, would you say that you being vocal has resulted in direct conflict with people, and I mean specifically in person to be clear. Have you experienced any such things, and if so, how has that manifested? And more importantly,
26:55
What communities specifically have entangled you, if that's the case? Um, could you repeat the first part? So if you think about instances where you yourself, you would think this, you said you think yourself to be somewhat vocal about these issues. So in a real world context, communities that you navigate both academically or just traditionally, you know, whether it's, you know, neighborhood and whatnot.
27:23
or just normal friend groups, how often would you say that do you feel antagonized when you're expressing views? And if so, by what kinds of communities do you feel antagonized by? Yeah, I'm fortunate in that I think I choose my people pretty well. I, you know, I went, I'm from like
27:51
heard of a lot of creative communities, and traditionally creative people, artists tend to be more left-leaning.
28:04
So I don't really face a lot of antagonistic feedback in my real life. That isn't to say I'm not vocal. I'm very vocal and I'm known to be vocal in my circles and amongst peers, like with my friends too. Everyone's all agree with me and we always have great discussions, but I don't feel antagonized. It's not like I'm...
28:33
I don't have like, I don't hold positions of power and influence. I'm just like a person. So yeah, I don't experience a lot of antagonism. I do run in like, I guess no one ever like outright disagree as we says it's wrong. I mean, I did have a bunch of that back when this all started, as far as.
29:02
Zionism Palestinian like in the headlines in October. I have had people like in my Instagram message out like DMs wanting to engage in conversation, but it's actually just like a Zionist telling me I'm wrong. But those people usually just like leave, I don't know.
29:30
And have you experienced any flashbacks of any kind due to the other citizens that were occurring and what were their nature and how as they affected you?
29:45
Well, honestly, honestly, I get. I didn't think of it, you know, like this, but. When I was on campus and the line of LAPD officers was descending from all sides, I wouldn't say it was necessarily like a flashback, flashback in the classical like PTSD sense, but it was really jarring and it did kind of put me back in.
30:16
the environment of the start of the BLM protest. Because it was crazy in the two week period, I think the BLM protests were so big. We got so much fraction and attention that, I don't know, by the end of it, I think it was just like COVID and quarantine lifting and everyone going back to their regular lives.
30:45
I guess my last BLM protests in that period, I didn't really see any cops. But my first one was hundreds of cops that were coming in from all sides. So when I was at campus the other day, I had a very physical panic response because I was shot with rubber bullets twice. And it was really...
31:13
It was like really scary and painful. I was, I was still like, I was what? 20 years old, 21 years old at the time. And they started shooting into the crowd and then they tear gassed. And so when people slowed down because they were tear gassed, they would shoot some more. So what happened to me like in particular was it was, I was standing there like trying to
31:43
prevent the police from getting to the seated black protesters. And they did just to send from all sides. A lot of people ran, which I get it. You know, they were being extremely violent, the police. But it was hard to run anywhere because they were coming from all four streets. And they, I got shot in the chest with a rubber bullet.
32:10
super, super painful, knocked all the wind out of me. And at first I didn't even know what had just happened because it was kind of a misnomer, especially, especially at the very start, because I think the day that I got shot with a rubber bullet was the day that there were like talks about rubber bullets at these things. I didn't even really know what it was until I got home that night. It was extremely painful. And then the shock wore off after a couple of minutes and I was still like backing up.
32:40
And they tear gassed us like they and it was we were like coughing. It was, you know, hard to breathe through that. And then when people slow down, I stopped because I was like, oh, my God, I'm in pain, like I'm bleeding because the rubber bullet tore skin. And then I got shot again in the back of my leg, which is, I think just it just shows like I was literally retreating. I had my back turned and I was shot in the back of the leg.
33:10
And that was even more painful because then I couldn't get away quick enough. I ended up, I think it's like hide behind a, I don't know, it was kind of a blur. I think I hid off to the side on the street and then waited for the place, like line to pass. And then I like ran from there to my car. Or it was just a few blocks away, but it was terrifying. Um, I never doubted the place were violent, but I did experience it firsthand.
33:40
All that to say that yes, when I'm at these protests, I do think about that. I saw a lot of rubber bullet guns at these campus protests and I got really like afraid for the students because these students were how old I did, they're how old I was. And granted, I'm not that much older, but I was really worried for them. I don't know. I was worried. I didn't want the police to shoot like students with rubber bullets on my campus.
34:09
Would you, would it be correct to say that at close enough range, you know, these weapons, could they be lethal? As though, could they be used to kill somebody? Yeah, yeah, close enough range for sure. I mean, people lost eyes. I was just talking about this with a friend, like, it's kind of insane to me that the world or the country like
34:37
has moved on from those protests because people lost their eyes at the BLM protests. There were several people around the country who literally went blind in one eye or lost an eyeball because they got shot in the face. I honestly consider myself really lucky. Like I have scar tissue in my chest. It's like it feels like there's a small rock under my skin where I got shot and I'm not sure if it's ever going to go away but...
35:06
I'm fairly lucky because they shot from like 20, 30 feet away probably. And it only hit me like on the side of the chest. I think a close enough range. Yes, they could definitely be lethal. Like if someone got shot in the throat, I can see being lethal. I remember picking up one of these rubber bullets off the ground because at the time I didn't even know what they were that night. I was like, what the hell is this? I picked it up and it was like, it was metal.
35:36
inside and it was like encased in rubber. So yeah, they're big, they're not small. So they're not going to like immediately penetrate the skin and kill you. But, um, they are metal on the inside. It's not just like a Nerf bullet. I think close enough for sure. They could kill someone. Okay. And when you compare, well, because you're rich and you have an academic background. So when you compare the real history, you were taught, you know, as in textbooks was to.
36:05
What's your current experience? What would you say the overlaps on? First of all, and second of all, would you say that from your perspective as an American citizen, would you say that your rights are respected both from a speech sense, but also your rights as you know, your rights to demonstrate publicly on, you know, how do you feel about that? Um,
36:35
Yeah, okay. So the first question, yes, from the academic background, did you just the first question like reiterated again? Sorry, I just... No, so we can break it down this way then. So the first one has to deal with how you personally feel regarding the history that you were taught in textbooks, you know, whether it's high school or universities, and how do you compare that with, you know, what you currently observe?
37:03
How would you say your rights for speech and your rights to demonstrate in terms of what you stand for, how would you say that compares from times back then to now?
37:19
Um, I don't think we, I don't think I or any child in America caught a great comprehensive picture of things like the civil rights movement and even all the way back to Columbus. You know, I think our history books were very biased, especially when it came to things like Vietnam. It was just like, oh, we were there and then, you know, we shouldn't have been. We just.
37:48
We decided to come back. So I don't think I really ever did start to question these things until a little bit later. Could you specify exactly what you mean by later? Like how, what's the age range we're talking about here? Back in college, for sure. Just being around other people. So post 18 or post 20?
38:15
Post 18, I think by the time I was 20, I was already like very radical. Um, not radical, but like I was very left winged. I before you could have called me a liberal, but after college, like I was a hardcore leftist. And, uh, as far as you can, I knew how was your mental health been in response to that? That's the last question for you about what.
38:44
How has your mental health been in response to these events being broadcasted social media specifically? Because it sounds like you use social media then. All that very active thing, you talk to a bunch of people there. How is that going?
39:13
My mental health is...
39:18
I feel like me personally, I don't, it takes a, I don't really have a numb response to these things. I mean, maybe not yet, maybe just is going to take a little bit more. But for me, it just seems like it's so easy to feel hopeless and dejected. And when you feel hopeless, dejected, numb, apathetic, you're not doing anybody any favors. Your feelings don't do.
39:47
anyone favors. It's like, I guess, you know, the thoughts and prayers bullshit. Like, feeling sad about the state of the world is understandable. For me, my mental health is, I mean, yeah, I get sad. I guess sad seeing stuff. I don't think it affects me in a way that...
40:11
takes me out of the game, so to speak. Like I do think I let it get make me angry more than I let it make me sad because sadness is just so debilitating whereas anger is what sustains a revolution. Being sad doesn't help the people that are being murdered by Israel. Like being sad does not help.
40:40
the children of Gaza. Being sad is a completely human response and we should be sad, but it's the first step. We should be angry at how sad we are. We should be angry that we are sad, that there is something that is making us sad. For me, my social media is all just this. And especially back in the fall,
41:09
It's very unfortunate because the amount of reports and first-hand documenting has dramatically decreased because a lot of the journalists in Gaza have been murdered. But back when my feed was just this 24-7.
41:29
I would just, I would make sure to take time to turn my phone off and like, I don't know, watch TV or something. You just have to not burn out. You just gotta know your own limits is what I think. Know what, like be honest with yourself about how much you can take in and handle. Don't let it get to a point where you feel burnt out because that literally does not help anybody. Would you say consuming these grass and glory?
41:57
imagery would you say that the system thinks it's normal or healthy to do on a regular basis? No, definitely not. That's really fucked up. God, it's not normal or healthy. You know what is even less normal and healthy? Like seeing it and experiencing it and watching it happen to your loved ones, being afraid that it's going to happen to you. So yeah, no, I don't think it's normal or healthy.
42:26
That being said, I'm not an advocate for like this kind of stuff not being online. Because I think that's what has radicalized people. I think the reason there are student encampments is because 20 year olds use Instagram and Twitter and Instagram and Twitter were flooded with images of
42:48
of what was happening on the ground. I think for the last like what, six months, 200 something days, we've been seeing what's going on and it's harder and harder to ignore. So yeah, I do think it's really bad for our mental health, but what's worse is seeing it in person.
[Whiz Pill Podcast 62] University Student Campus In Solidarity With Palestine