The following is a public discussion hosted on Twitter (formerly) now X dot com. It features Whiz and the responses of other working professionals in the creative industry.
Exploring Artistic Independence in the Age of AI
Source: GRLKRASH Discussion Discussion on Artist Independence
Part 1: The Shifting Landscape of the Music Industry (0:00 - 4:56)
The Rise of Independent Artists (0:00 - 1:56): This section explores the transition from major label deals being the ultimate goal for artists to a growing preference for independence, with artists leveraging direct-to-consumer models.
The Changing Role of Labels (1:56 - 3:18): Speakers discuss the financial struggles of traditional label models and theorize that labels might evolve into distribution services like TuneCore or DistroKid.
The Spillover Effect of Independence (3:18 - 4:56): The conversation shifts to how the independent trend is impacting other industries like gaming and film, highlighting platforms like Steam and the rise of independent films. The influence of Patreon and its founder Jack Conte’s stance against Apple’s platform fees is also discussed.
Part 2: Navigating Independence in a Platform-Driven World (4:56 - 11:51)
The Patreon Case Against Apple (4:56 - 6:49): A deep dive into the ongoing conflict between Patreon and Apple over platform fees, raising concerns about Apple’s control over revenue generated within its ecosystem. The discussion expands to include the broader issue of platform dependence for creators.
The Allure and Challenges of Physical Media (8:29 - 11:51): This section examines the resurgence of physical media and the debate around its importance in preserving artistic works. Concerns are raised about streaming platforms shelving content and the role of piracy in archiving media. The conversation highlights the disparity between the financial success of projects and the limited compensation for creators, particularly in the film industry.
Part 3: Community, Collaboration, and Ownership in the Independent Landscape (11:51 - 20:55)
The Power of Community and Collaboration (11:51 - 15:32): The discussion emphasizes the importance of community building and collaboration for independent artists. Examples are given of successful artist-organized events and the role they play in brand building and revenue generation. The need for tools and education to protect artists from exploitation and scams is also highlighted.
The Consumer-Creator Relationship (17:58 - 20:55): This section delves into the dynamic between creators and their audience, acknowledging the inherent hierarchy and cautioning against relying solely on fan support for sustainability. The fleeting nature of online attention and the constant need to produce new content are discussed as potential pitfalls of an overly dependent relationship with consumers.
Part 4: AI, Innovation, and the Future of Artistic Creation (20:55 - 39:04)
Rethinking the Music Industry Model (20:55 - 25:40): This part critiques the current music industry model, particularly its exploitation of artists and reliance on outdated contracts. Speakers suggest a decentralized future for music ownership, leveraging smart contracts and community-driven models. The rise of AI music and its implications for the industry are also discussed.
The Creator as a Business (25:40 - 39:04): This section focuses on the need for creators to adopt entrepreneurial mindsets and develop sustainable business models. It explores strategies like diversifying income streams, acquiring new skills, and identifying market gaps. The importance of self-worth, setting appropriate rates, and avoiding undervaluing one’s services is stressed.
Part 5: Building Sustainable Futures and Protecting Creative Integrity (39:04 - 59:29):
Community Building Beyond Platforms (39:04 - 43:20): The conversation revisits the importance of community building but emphasizes the need to cultivate these spaces outside of social media platforms to avoid their manipulative algorithms and foster genuine engagement.
Ownership and Education in the Face of Predatory Practices (43:20 - 59:29): This final section stresses the importance of creators prioritizing ownership of their work and educating themselves about contracts and industry practices to avoid predatory deals. Speakers share anecdotes about artists facing challenges within label systems and highlight the need for self-advocacy and financial literacy.
Part 6: A Call to Action and Reflections on the Evolving Creative Landscape (59:29 - End)
Protecting Creativity, Finding Funding, and Building for the Future (59:29 - End): The discussion concludes with practical advice for creators, encouraging them to find alternative funding sources, reduce overhead costs, and consider building their own platforms or agencies. It underscores the importance of self-belief, perseverance, and adapting to the evolving creative landscape. The speakers reflect on the challenges and opportunities presented by the changing industry, ultimately urging creators to stay true to their vision and find innovative ways to sustain their art.
Transcript
GRL Transcript
00:00
But yeah, this is going to be super open, super open space. Definitely want to hear from everybody. Definitely feel good about where things are going, as far as like what we're doing in our community that we're all a part of and we're all, you know, building and contributing to our communities. Yeah, what do you think? Independence is the future? Artist independence is the future? That's the... Yes, it's funny. One of my like childhood friends called me today. He's also like...
00:29
doing music as well. But he was just telling me, he was researching the Nipsey Hussles strategy and all about how Nipsey treated his music as if it was just merch. He used Shopify to sell his albums and he just, just breaking it down, a million streams on Spotify is $3,000. Let's say you sell your albums for $10 a pop, that's 300 sales. So you're literally
00:58
comparing 300 sales versus a million people. So like, it's just a way more sustainable format if you're just going directly to your fans, directly to your consumers. And I think it's like, it's cool that it's now becoming the trend. Like the underground rap trend is now like, everybody's independent, like F the labels, like direct to consumer, like that's the trend now. So that's cool to see. Whereas like even seven years ago,
01:28
the trend was like, oh, get poppin' and try to get signed. So it's cool to see the culture shifting toward a way more independent mindset. Yeah, literally, that's so crazy though. Because yeah, I feel like at one point, signing a big record deal with a big record label was the number one biggest thing for an artist, biggest accomplishment for an artist. Now I feel like it's like, when somebody even finds out that somebody isn't independent, is signed, it's like, oh.
01:56
Oh, okay. Like you're an industry plant. Like, I don't know. I just feel like it's not even like that. It's not, I don't know. It just doesn't carry the same. I feel like you have more experience with this than me. So we'd love to like hear your thoughts about. So Jamie sent a video yesterday talking about like kind of the business side of why labels are like doing all these restructures, firing a bunch of people, like dropping artists. And basically
02:24
It's that the whole industry realized that like this model is not profitable of like investing tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands into artists to like fake streams. It's not converting into like profit for the vast majority of artists. So there's like been a lot of restructuring. The guy in the video that Jamie sent, he theorized that like labels are basically going to become like the next tune core and the next district kid.
02:51
where basically they're just becoming like a channel for distribution. Um, so that they can just like sign, you know, anyone can just sign up to like Sony music distribution and like with that, with Sony doing barely anything, they're just getting a cut of, of the artists, like, you know, fee of their royalty and then like, just, just serving as a, you know, as a service to distribute their content. Um, so I definitely could see that path of like, I think DistroKid is like,
03:18
such a successful business model. And I could definitely see the majors like moving in that direction of like a more kind of just open, anyone can use it model, but just like, you know, taking little fees from everyone who uses the platform. Okay, that's, that's hella interesting. I actually didn't see that video. The independence like trend, I guess. Like, could you see that going, spilling over into like other industries, like entertainment industry?
03:48
I think it's already happening with like, definitely with games like Steam. I don't know much about film, but I definitely could see like independent, like art films becoming more of a thing. I think just with social media, TikTok especially with the, and with these new algorithms, like it's weird to think about like a 4U algorithm, like where content gets pushed out to like the whole platform is like a newer model. Like TikTok came out with like a 4U page in like 2020.
04:17
Like before that, it was like mostly organic or like mostly like you're someone in your followers who you follow would have to like share the content generally for you to see it. So like I think in the past like four years, we just we just have this new like discover ability on social media and it's just made every industry a lot more independent, a lot easier to go directly to consumer. Yes. Specifically, I wanted to bring up the fact that Jack Conte.
04:45
the founder of Patreon. They have been talking pretty vocally about the situation happening over...
04:56
the Apple platform because I don't know if you guys are aware but the family of Patreon actually is a musician himself he actually started the platform initially because he wanted to create a place away from the big players essentially because at the time the YouTube monetization that they offered was not really cutting it and a music video that he self-produced cost him a little over ten thousand dollars so
05:24
The drive for him was to create a platform that would allow him to fund ambitious projects like this or even just keep something semi-regular going on. They're basically going head to head with Apple, the company, because all of the revenue that the platform is generating at the moment, they're forced to slice a cut back to Apple. If I recall correctly, I think it's about 30%. That is if you subscribe to someone through the Patreon app that is available on iOS.
05:53
So to my knowledge, that's the second in a long line of lawsuits that are pretty, pretty much soon to happen against Apple because it's unethical and it's really them basically trying to overstep their role as a platform and diving into the pockets of people that have nothing to do with the platform itself. The first person that I recall that actually got successfully...
06:22
sued Apple over this was the founder of Epic Games, which is the company behind Fortnite. But this is a case that's currently ongoing in Europe still to this day. So to circle back to the question at hand here in terms of whether or not independent is the way to go, it depends on what you mean, right? Because I'm asking you all specifically, are you talking about independent of platforms or independent of a particular individual or are you talking about...
06:49
financial independence or being independent of the corporate culture because it's a lot to think about in the current day and age where in some way shape or form you have no choice but to sign over or sign up under someone else's roof really.
07:06
Yeah, I think that's a really good point about Apple. Um, literally, no matter what you're selling, if you're selling something in app, Apple takes a 30% cut, which is huge. Um, huge cut into people's margins. Um, and, uh, this book read, write own, which was a really like a crypto book, but, um, he talks a lot about how. Like the way we businesses are set up, they just like kill innovation. Like just imagine you're a company, like a startup.
07:34
who's like wanting to build on top of Apple, but you just have to allocate for like an extra 30% out of every sale going to the platform you're using. Like that's just, you know, that just is huge decentralization from using Apple as a, you know, as a payment platform. And also like it creates a lot of friction because brands will be like, Oh, we don't want you to, we don't want to sell our stuff in the app. Like they have to come to our website if they want to buy it so that we, we can avoid that fee. So it just creates like so many hoops.
08:04
um, for like startups and small businesses. Yeah. 30, 30% is wild. Like what other revenue models do you think artists should be exploring? Definitely merch. Um, definitely concert shows. Um, I think also like physical media, like physical versions of your music or like, if you have basically for.
08:29
What I'm thinking of right now, like really, it's funny cause my friend just randomly called me for my birthday and then like this came up. But like basically I'm just thinking about putting my remix EP just on a CD and just like putting the music video like on the same disc and just like selling those for like five, $10. Like just having something available so that you can like get money. Cause like streaming, it just takes so much to make anything on streaming. And I'm just thinking like, what if I'd invested all of my energy I've put into streaming and to like.
08:59
selling CDs or selling albums. Like I would low key have a sustainable, like middle-class career as a musician. So just something I'm thinking about for the future is like trying to pivot into ways that like I can capture more value. Honestly, that's like super smart. I would definitely cop one of those. That sounds sick. CDs, I feel like are super cool. So I wanted to specifically address the fact when it comes to physical media actually, it's a pretty.
09:28
big debate happening right now as of currently because a bunch of people who are in the film industry like I am, they're talking about the problem that these companies are bringing up to the consumer because on one hand they want them to buy more stuff but on the other hand everything is streamable now and there's a big disconnect here because if they decide to shelf something, technically speaking...
09:57
The only way to keep that stuff available is through piracy. And I'm not gonna get into that side of the fence as far as debate goes. But I will say that in terms of the incentive of archiving media, you gotta hand it over to the pirates, you know, you actually you actually are more likely to find stuff on the piracy side than you ever will find on the regular traditional streaming media side.
10:25
And HBO actually as of currently they have like a whole lineup of shows that they basically cut from their library. And if you as a consumer only rely on these platforms to get your stuff, you know what of the media that you enjoy or that you want to support. And it does bring a question too in terms of where the money goes. Because for me that's really what it boils down to as someone who makes film slash visual media, right? Like...
10:54
If I think about the flow of money and how much a movie makes, it makes no sense that the majority of that money actually is being pocketed by the executives who essentially get to call the shots on who retains the rights on what when it's thousands, if not tens of thousands of people who helped make the vision happen. If we're talking about independent film, that's a different story, but even then, actually, I would argue that...
11:22
companies that are more friendly to more independent filmmakers like A24 for example even them they're not subject, they're subject to the same problem if you release something on the down and they have the rights to watch it put out then if they decide to shelf it congratulations no one can watch it ever again so you're going to have to rely on piracy to make, to keep that stuff alive or some sort of underground network to keep selling your own stuff that you made
11:51
Yeah, that is actually really insane that um things are set up like that in the film industry Kind of like this. I feel like it's similar even in the music industry, but that is wild Yes, it is I strongly believe so because I've been independent all my life basically as an artist and I've been connecting with a lot of other independent artists and
12:17
I think one of the things that has really, really worked for me as an independent artist that actually even helps me to believe that independent, being an independent artist is the future as I see the entire layoff going on right now, is that now creatives or musical artists are now able to form communities of their own, right? To form teams of their own. I really agree with you, Girlcrush, about how hosting events can play a huge role in
12:46
building your brand or creating streams of revenues for yourself as an artist, because we just had an event, I think, day before yesterday, and it was a joint event. So I think that's one of, that's one of the way you can be able to cut costs for yourself as a creative, as an independent creative, trying to build your brand, trying to build your audience and trying to raise fund is for yourself, right? Collaborate, collaborate with other artists. That's one of the easiest way for you to be able to.
13:15
thrive within this within within this place as an independent artist. So we had a collaborative event for artists, myself and XCJ and Silent Parker. We had an event called the listening room where we just came had fun, played our songs, invited other artists that came and we just basically just gathered ourselves in a space with fans, people that were interested. So many people bought the tickets for that event which I was quite surprised because that was like my first
13:44
put our music out there, invite other artists, they came, performed, and it was a whole experience. Everybody that was there was blown away. They were like, yo, we just came to listen to good music. They just came to experience music. And now we're looking at even doing more of that, right? So that's one of the ways I feel like independent artists can be able to grow within the space as being independent artists. And it's inevitable. It's inevitable because myself, I've never really liked the idea of labels.
14:13
I've never really looked into it and finding out that I think, I think everything, the blockchain technology is even one of the ways that independent artists can be even able to grow within this space. We just need to build these tools to protect us and to keep us safe because like check out what just happened with Jamie. That's so sad, man. When I saw that, when I saw that message in the group chat, I felt so sad about it because that's so crazy. She's been working so hard in this space, like so hard in this space, man. She's been grinding in this space.
14:41
Only for somebody to just wake up one day and just target her and take what she has. The thing they want to ruin her. Nah, that's not even possible because once you're blessed by God, everything that you're doing will definitely work. They can only take what they can take, but they can't take your life. And as long as they can't take your life, you still have hope and you're definitely going to still grow. And I strongly believe in Jamie. I fuck with everything she's doing. I'm super bullish on her and I know she's definitely going to come back stronger. So.
15:07
Yeah, that's just it. Basically collaborate with other artists and you definitely grow too. And we need to build tools to protect ourselves too. We can only educate as creative drive. Like we can also collaborate with developers to build those tools in ways that can be able to protect us from getting attacked within this space because as artists, we are very vocal and as independent artists too, knowing fully well that we're doing everything by ourselves, it puts us in that space where...
15:32
we have opinions and we won't keep it to ourselves because we're basically managing our own lives and whatever it is will affect our craft or affect our growth, we'll definitely speak up on it. So that's just what I have to say for now. Like one of the things that is really, that I hate about it though, is that it isn't safe really. Like it is, there's so many ways to get screwed over. I've moved a lot on this topic. Where I'm at now, we can, we, as an artist you really can't.
16:02
Hick, assuming you're in a position where you don't have like deals on the table. Um, but kind of just, you got to wait for them to approach you. And I think when someone approaches you with a deal that feels like it fits. Your goals and what you see for yourself. That's probably when it's time to sign. If you're not there yet, then just keep, if that's your goal is to sign and just keep working until you have enough leverage.
16:30
where you can pretty much set the terms in favor of like what you want to see for yourself. That's what I would say. Okay yeah that makes a lot of sense like waiting until you have enough leverage you can kind of make the terms yourself. Do you think that artists should prioritize ownership over everything? About everything else? No. I think the most important thing, I mean that's a very broad question, the most important thing is making art that's meaningful.
17:00
And that you can stand on and that's good. I think that's the most important thing. Um, then after that, you talk about like who owns, who owns what, who gets parts of what. Um, but like I've had situations in the past where like, you know, somebody, you know, the, the, the, the splits didn't work out exactly how I would have liked, but it's like having that piece in the world is more important than like getting the exact like percentage.
17:30
that I would have wanted on the track. So in those cases, I would say it becomes really clear that like, you know, putting your art out and it's important that you're owning it. Even though that is, you know, you definitely wanna own pieces of what you're making and like learn from mistakes if you have situations like that in the past. I even saw, I've been seeing a lot also like people selling their catalogs, like selling the publishing to their catalogs. I saw...
17:58
Eve just sold hers for like an eight-figure deal, I think. If you're talking about the independence that you're trying to obtain, it needs to be acknowledged. The role of the audience in that equation, because that's the one part I don't feel people talk about enough, especially when you consider the fact that, as far as audiences are concerned, they're consumers. And consumers are clientele, and the clientele is your landlord.
18:28
So in that scenario, nothing you can really do as a creator is going to go around that hierarchy, that relationship by default implies that you're going to be subject to the whims of someone else. So if this is the kind of life that is interesting or appealing to you as a creator, I mean, by all means have at it, because in the current model that I'm observing right now, especially...
18:58
with the social media in the whole pot, it seems to me that people, at the end of the day, they don't really care about the person. They only care about being entertained or they care about whatever product you have to offer them to keep that coming. Essentially, the world I see them occupy essentially is not too dissimilar from the world that currently...
19:26
Apple or Microsoft or even YouTube occupies because technically speaking they're just platforms right? But the problem is like it forces you to be on a treadmill and grind away to produce something. Anyone who's been in the spotlight for long enough will know this you know if you if you make something that blows up and goes viral suddenly you're faced with two choices. You either have to keep this up and chase that
19:55
15 minutes of fame or you just keep committing to whatever you're doing in hopes of attracting the real core fan base. But be honest, a core fan base, no matter how big it is, it's not going to sustain you and keep you independent because eventually they'll move on to something else. I think this idea of thinking of consumers the same way you would think of a
20:25
is gonna be there for you no matter what. That's not the right way to go because ultimately it is business. If you place that role onto a crowd of people that you don't even know, don't be surprised if at some point you get let down by them because it's their right as consumers to move on to something else. And unfortunately, so much of the current landscape that exists online incentivize them to move on to something else quickly because it's always in your trend. It's always in your face. That's a good point. Also, like with the treadmill and everything.
20:55
The gentleman who just spoke about consumers and music, I don't know if I ever felt like a consumer and I believe music will evolve into communities, owning. I don't know if people wanna be called fans and consumers anymore. It's sort of toxic in my opinion. And when you guys go to the grocery store, right?
21:24
and you see all these products, in my opinion, now all of them can be record labels. You go to the car manufacturers, you go to see Audi or Rolex or BMW, Tesla, these places can now be record companies. I've worked for many record companies in my day at Universal Music Group, Interscope, I've worked at several music publishing companies, law firms.
21:53
music management companies out here in Los Angeles. And I think the whole industry needs to reset and a rebuild. The contracts are very exploitive and we all should understand the history of how this all began, which in my opinion started out from organized crime, which is something we don't really talk about, the history of Hollywood or entertainment. I mean, like working up in these labels, I feel like I was turning into a troll.
22:23
I found out a lot of things that I didn't want to know. It's very serpent-like, a lot of evil shit going on. And you know, I did a deep dive on this thing about like these spirit companies, like all these liquor companies, you go out to the club, you go out to a spot or you're a bar at home, all these companies that don't, these alcohol companies are really concentrated and centralized to just a few owners, right?
22:50
and they amass over $363 billion in revenue each year. That's a billion dollars a day, okay? You know how much the music industry generates a year? 19 billion, okay? And that's not a lot if 85% of the money is going towards the majors. And then 15% of that goes to the rest.
23:17
like if you're a successful in indie company and don't even get me started with the streaming. So the model is done, I'm sorry. Some people may not agree with that, but when you think about how people are selling their catalogs, there's an old band called Pink Floyd who's very successful. They just sold their catalog for $400 million recently. And the record labels, when it comes to Web 3, they're coming in with catalogs. So...
23:47
Getting a record deal is probably not a good idea. You might as well go to the bank and get you a 50 to $100,000 loan and still own your masters afterwards. Because if you get a record deal, you're probably gonna not own your masters, okay? That's just how it is. And we also need some reverse terms of service, some contracts that are not into Perttuity and to the whole universe, where, you know, it ends at a time where you're still old enough or young enough to own it, not forever.
24:16
You know what I'm saying? And also when you think of AI, what parts that's gonna play. I have people here on many apps who are starting to use AI music and they're not telling people that this was AI and some of us understand it. Come on man, this is AI song. But people are starting to promote it. Like, hey, I wrote this song when they just prompted it. And you know, other people who are not understanding AI are just accepting it, clapping their hands, giving them dap, it's cool. I mean, if that's what you do, it's all right, but.
24:42
you know, if that's where we're going with AI taking over, it's like, it's even worse. It's gonna be even more fragmented. So the ownership of music, I believe, should be decentralized, smart contracts, and communities with more companies around the world. But now I did wanna say the business loan thing, that's so funny to say that, because I was just thinking, like, can we literally just go to the bank and get like a business loan and like use the money for promotion? Like, I don't know why.
25:11
that's not more common. Like, you know, that's basically what a label, that's literally what a label is, not basically. I leave that buried on the consumer comment I've made because I feel like some of it was misunderstood. When I say consumer, I just mean in terms of the hierarchy that exists between the creator and the people that get exposed to what they produce. Me being on the video slash film side, I can tell you pretty upfront.
25:40
There's no way to cut it. When you put something out, you're putting it out for a consumer base. You want someone to show up at the theater to watch your film, do you not? You want someone to go on YouTube and watch your music video or a short project or whatever that is, do you not? So in that scenario, going independent, there's no way around it. If you go independent, essentially what you're saying is, okay, I'm going to slowly...
26:07
build a relationship, that viewership that keeps my projects slash business afloat. And if you treat them like you would say a family member, that's a recipe for disaster because these people are not your family. Can you really blame them if they decide out of nowhere to stop supporting you because they found the next fun thing to take a look at because on YouTube alone for example, there's over a million hours worth of content that gets uploaded there.
26:37
every single, you know, not even day per second, that's about like the average that you get on there. So for me, it's really hard to imagine a future where independently you can slowly rely on consumer base or fan base or whatever term you want to apply to that because these people, it should not be their responsibility to keep you afloat.
27:02
What should happen instead would be a restructuring of the way these companies do business so that the likes of Apple, the likes of Microsoft or even OpenAI as we speak that's essentially making a bet for entering the very space that creators have built up to begin with and profited from them by trailing their AI models off of their work. For me, it sounds pretty obvious that they deserve a slice of the pie but it's not happening because...
27:29
in terms of business, you know, it's a game of whoever gets there first gets to profit, right? And one could make the case that, well, whoever gets there first got there first because they're smarter or they have more resources or they have more merit. And I'm calling that out as being mostly nonsense because even Microsoft, the company, if you look into the history of that company that started.
27:58
Bill Gates got a loan from family members and friends that kickstarted the journey of the company. And it's the same thing for Apple. If they did not have access to resources or people with affluence to get to where they were today, these companies would not be a thing. So how realistic is it really to try and compete with the same people by offloading that same task of fundraising onto regular consumers who, from their perspective, all they see from you?
28:27
is the occasional TikTok video or the occasional YouTube video. It's just not a fair structure in my opinion. And it's just not a good way to do business long-term because the creator is not happy and the consumer is not happy as well because because of the way the internet is structured currently, they essentially get incentivized to be ungrateful because
28:50
They only see you as nothing but a content machine that's supposed to feed them the next thing, and the next thing is the next, and the next thing. I would argue actually that's exactly what the music industry as we speak is so bad right now in terms of people having poor taste, you know? It's part of the criticism that Eric Lamar has made against Drake in terms of, you're not a colleague, you're a colonizer.
29:16
You come into a space that is supposed to uplift, you know, the voices of the people in it. And instead you make it as commercial as possible so that you and only you benefit. Mmm. That is crazy actually. How you kind of like connected that to the conversation. Cause I didn't, I never really thought of it that way, but that's a really good, that's a really good point. Um, and I honestly, I do, I want to know what you guys think about AI or like where, how things are going to.
29:46
how AI is going to change things, but. Hey, what's up, y'all? I just wanted to touch on getting your own advance from the bank. It's quite simple in terms of all you got at banks work on the history, right? Your credit history. And if you got credit, you could get something from the bank. And if you, especially if you don't have good personal credit,
30:14
The other thing you can do is when you have your business, you set up your LLC and you show income. You have proven income from whatever, from like streaming or ticket sales, merch, whatever. They just need to know that you have a way to pay. So you show them something like that. You can certainly find a way to get funding. If you sell NFTs, you could probably use that too. They look at, banks still look at.
30:43
crypto as something risky, but they're starting to, you know, loosen up a little bit. So, like, you could certainly even show your income from that. You just got to show that you have a way to pay back. You just can't come with a dream and expect them to give you money. But if you got a job, too, you know what I mean? You got a job, you can show that you got income from your job and you could pay them, too, from that. So there's ways to do it. And then it's just a matter of.
31:13
how much your income tells them that you can borrow, you know, based on their interest rates and whatnot, and how much you think is right for your situation too, right? So, yeah. Yeah, how do you think AI is gonna shape the industry? Such a big question. I mean, in every facet, like I just think AI assistance is gonna be in every part of our lives. Like, it's just about when. Like, I think the more tools we get, like,
31:41
that we're able to use AI to help us with it, the more systems that'll be integrated with. So that's my answer. Yeah, I think people, like, yeah, there's gonna be a lot of people using AI. But I think like real ones who really like love music and love it for the connection with the artist are gonna start to, it's gonna be like, you know, oh, I eat organic food. Oh, I don't listen to AI, you know, kind of thing.
32:09
I think, especially with the younger kids, they're gonna, I think, like, you know, it's gonna be a way to distinguish yourself from the other people, like, oh, you listen to AI music, ooh, right? But it'll also be like levels too, right? Like a lot of the mixing and mastering stuff, which is like background type work can be done by AI. And I could see that happening really well, but like to a level, right? Of course.
32:37
a professional can always find more nuance. But yeah, I think, I really think that people like who love music, like us, who make music, I wouldn't wanna listen to AI music. I don't think it's something that I would really be interested in. I could hear a, I probably would hear a song and be like, yo, that shit is hot. And then I find out it's AI and I don't like it anymore. You know what I mean? So.
33:06
It's just, I think there's gonna be a lot of people like that. Probably not the majority though, right? There'll probably be like, you know, some underground type shit. Obviously it's so very.
33:28
of the value of analyzing.
33:34
AI's impact, you know, that there's, these are two things that are, it's very important to do, especially in the current day and age we're in right now, where so much of what is produced is easily shareable and easily accessible.
33:50
even you know whatever you use to access the internet and I feel that as a frame of reference it's important to look back on the career of this individual his name is Raymond Scott he was born in 1908 and for context I was right around the time where stuff was just starting to become more quote unquote technologically inclined you know the first couple of cars were becoming more common
34:19
more accessible for the general consumer. And also around the same time, that's when electricity became more and more commonplace. So it's up to you to kind of make up your mind in terms of like, how would you feel in a world like that? That's changing right before your very eyes. But Raymond, what he did actually was taken what was happening. And as someone who was a composer and a musician, he went to the...
34:47
complete other side of the spectrum. He actually became an engineer and built himself a machine that could make songs. Really interesting story, I guess, if you care to look into that. And some people in the engineering world credit him to be essentially one of the fathers of what we now call artificially generated music. But I feel that a bunch of people who are against the idea of
35:15
what's made artificially, they're more so talking about the intent behind it, you know, you're trying to mass produce things the same way you would mass produce a burger, which again, it's the exact same critique that Crunchy Cat's made against Drake from the Gengo. And correct me if I'm wrong, but a good way to think of Drake's music is essentially what would happen if you told an AI, make me a tight beat, make me a...
35:43
Jamaican patois type beat, make me a drill type beat, make me a literally whatever Afro beats type beat. That's what Drake does. And if you're a Drake fan, sorry to offend you, but that's the kind of music you listen to and if you enjoy listening to that, you know more power to you. But Kendrick, as someone who is a fan of hip hop, who has respect for the culture and what he represents, he saw a responsibility for him to step up and remind people, hey man,
36:10
There are real people behind the craft of what is being made here and not only that, there's an actual audience that engages with that genre and actually expects more from the artist besides you mass producing a burger and just feeding them on a daily basis. To be honest, I'm very much aligned with Kendrick on that one. I don't think using AI to make something easily mass produced is not the way to go.
36:39
But on the other hand though, one can make the case that all these tools that are currently available to everyone is a good thing. Because for me as someone who does a lot of filmmaking work, a lot of the work I do is very much audio heavy. So very commonly I'll use tools that are very much using AI in some way shape or form. But to be clear, it's not the same kind of AI that we see with Chai GPT or Suno or...
37:08
OpenAI and all these other companies. These AI tools are more so based upon machine learning proper and giving you a particular expected outcome. So that if you want to make something sound a certain way, you can do that. Or if you want to tweak a certain algorithm to get a certain result, you can do that. That still takes effort on your part as the creator to get a certain result, as opposed to going to the Drake McDonald Center and just ordering a...
37:37
drill type beat or whatever type beat you feel like ordering. And last thing I'll say too is that if you think of how this technology is going to impact the creators' independence, it's important to think about where the flow of money is coming from because the last I checked this promise of creators having stuff demarcatized for them, I'm not really buying into it because the majority of the money that's being made right now is not the creators making it. If anything.
38:06
are losing out on money right now because like I said earlier, a lot of these stores, the way they were built was off of someone else's work and nobody has been compensated to date as far as I'm aware. That is a very, very good point, especially with AI and yeah, all of it is built off of like other people's work, other people, you know, things that are on the internet. Where does community come in?
38:36
you know, when it comes to independent artists and like, I guess the success of independent artists. I think community is like everything. Like, how can you be successful? If you're independent, that means you don't have like a set support system. You're not attached to a label, you're not attached to a bigger entity that's like funding you. So you literally rely on your community to like support everything you're doing.
39:04
Yeah, that's, I think it's literally everything. And I think that that's why social media is so popular because people recognize that like building a community is like kind of how you get a support system. But at the same time, I think we got to figure out some ways to like form a community in a way that they can't just take it away from us. Like without relying on a platform, I think like email lists or like SMS lists, things like that are.
39:33
probably going to be the future of like how we're interfacing with our communities. Communities to me are just like a, bro, I don't know, a town square. Like people talking to each other, things starting from that community, other communities starting from that community, like other conversations starting, like, you know, I don't know. That's kind of like my view of it. It's a lot of people who currently engage with social media in a very linear way. And by linear I mean specifically.
40:02
They just go on there to just go on there. They're not going on there to look for stuff. And there's this concept in marketing that's known as the five levels of awareness that you might want to buy the few things from if you care about making yourself visible to people, but the playbook sort of goes that there's a different range of audience types. There's the most aware.
40:31
and then it goes all the way down to the least aware. So that's the five levels. And I don't want you to, the audience falls into the least aware category because these people, they're not invested in knowing about you or knowing about why you do what you do or what you do even to begin with. They're just people that are on their smoke breaks or whatever they're doing.
40:56
on their phones and they happen to see you and if they like it, they like it, but they're not going to really be engaged with it in the long term. Whereas on the community side, it's going to be the most of it. It's the people who essentially make it a mission for them to know as much about you as possible and know about why the mission statement actually goes out of their way to spread that to other people. Which is, you know, where...
41:25
defend an element comes in, which for me, I've said this before and I'll say it again, the way social media currently has weaponized that behavior against its own users, you know, it's highly unethical because all these platforms care about is engagement and there is such a thing as bad engagement where all you do is just spend your time and your energy arguing or debating with somebody about whatever it is you care about.
41:54
From the perspective of the creator though, it's a good thing because it's more engagement, right? But if you're someone who cares about the well-being of the people who support you, then it makes sense to me that you would not want people to just constantly expose themselves to brain rot on social media for the sake of engaging with your stuff. So the next best thing in terms of addressing that issue is to literally build third spaces, which is this concept that
42:23
talks about this idea that there are three spaces. There's your home, your job, and your third space, which can be your church, a barbershop, or in this particular instance, when it comes to music specifically, a concert venue. But even concert venue, as we speak, they're having that same brain rot mentality essentially spilling over there, where people that don't know how to act will just show up and act a fool in their concert.
42:53
just from it for their TikTok so that they can go viral. So now it's less about you and what you're doing and more about them and them being the main character. So that's what we have right now. Unfortunately, everyone has a phone, which in turn makes them a potential chain in building that community. But on the other hand, it's very much something that they can use against you to basically.
43:20
overshadow what you're trying to do as a creator, a performer, and so on and so forth. So understand what kind of deal you're setting yourself up for when you enter that space. Even just like, yeah, just getting a lot of attention or a lot of metrics. Even though that's exciting too, I think that that has a place and it has a value and I think that it can be very exciting and I think it can even draw more people to the community and like stuff like that. But.
43:49
At the end of the day, I feel like community building is like the most valuable, the most sustainable thing. I think like, I think ownership should be like the priority for everyone, in general. And I think sometimes people say like ownership and stuff and sometimes, I just feel like the words, the words mean things, but the words haven't been meaning.
44:17
the things they've been meaning to people, because we kind of throw them around a lot. But I do think being an independent artist, we see all the time that a lot of artists that are signing stuff, it's a luck of the draw, you feel me? And of course, everything happens within the bond timing. So like, and everything happens how it's supposed to, but sometimes people end up in certain situations.
44:46
through lack of knowledge or lack of understanding. And sometimes that lack of understanding is by design. And I just personally feel like if you're one of those types of people that are like, I don't want to say prone to signing the wrong things or getting in the wrong situations, but if you're more so not necessarily educated in certain things, then...
45:16
sometimes labels and things like that can be predatory. But I also think the model of labels and shit right now is kind of burnt. A lot of things model a hierarchical build, and I just don't think things like that are going to sustain in general. I kind of think labels have to re-
45:44
I think labels have been lying for a minute. They've been lying about numbers, they've been lying about a bunch of shit. So I kind of feel like...
45:54
Right now is going to be a time for artists to be independent. Not right now, but in general, but whatever. I think it's a smart time for artists to really focus on their independence, but it's going to be harder. It's going to be harder. You're going to have to be vulnerable. You're going to have to be OK with failing. And I think it's interesting because of the way labels are right now versus the way like.
46:18
stand culture or like music fandom culture is right now. It's like almost working against each other in an interesting way. It's just really funny. It's just really funny how everything is playing out. So like the best bet is to get as educated as you can. I'm not saying all contracts are bad, but I am saying.
46:42
that it is smart to look over things and understand that if someone is approaching you with a contract, it's because they see value in you. And if you don't see value in yourself, you might suck yourself into something that is lower than your value, if you get what I'm saying. Only time will tell, really. I don't know where anything's gonna go. And you know what I'm saying? I feel like it's a lot easier and it's more artists or musicians.
47:12
this isn't stuff like that that it is you know I'm saying like a gaming you know I'm saying like I don't know I can't really I don't really have an answer to that per se but like I could only imagine I can only imagine cuz like the music industry I mean I feel like artists are just more loud about shit I feel like
47:36
I feel like artists are like loud and they're like the youngest sibling. If we had three kids, walk with me. If we had three kids, the youngest siblings would probably be the musicians. They're like really loud about like, they want their way and they want things to look like, you know, like this and that. And then I feel like the middle child is like...
48:04
I'm gonna put gaming and actors in the same category. I feel like people who create games and the gaming industry and actors and things like that, I'm gonna put them in the middle child area because I feel like their grievances kinda get ignored sometimes. But...
48:28
But they're definitely there, but whenever they do need to stand on business, they stand on business a little bit louder, not louder, but firmer, with more tactic involved, you know what I'm saying, than maybe a younger sibling. And then I just feel like the behind the scenes creators, like I would say the person behind the camera, the directors, the engineers, producers, you know what I'm saying, people behind that aren't necessarily the faces of things.
48:58
like the oldest siblings where it's like well they've been taking L's for years and they just been having to sit there and they'll say like yo but I'm not fucking with this what about this and like oh you know you know how it is I don't know you know I'm saying so I just feel like it's gonna affect every industry interestingly interestingly but like it also depends on like the way these communities kind of like express their grievances like I feel like
49:28
I don't know, I just feel like everything's kind of different. I'm a little all over the place, so I'm sorry if I'm not like being straight forward, but yeah, I kind of feel like everything's kind of going to be all over the place and we're going to have to pull from each other and be inspired by the way each other kind of stands on business. And I think also like...
49:48
being multifaceted really helps. Because before it was like, you had people who were into gaming, but they weren't also musicians and shit. You know what I'm saying? They were kind of told to focus on one thing. Or like, you know, but now we have musicians making games and directors that are also rappers. You know what I'm saying? Everybody's got to do a little bit of this and that. So I think in the process of whenever you add another kind
50:18
your little to-do thing, you kind of learn how to handle things differently.
50:26
learn how to like stand on business differently, understand a different level of independence. Like I know for me, music itself isn't what sustains my art, but my art itself sustains everything so I'm able to do music more freely. You get what I'm saying? So it just really, I really just think it's like whenever people start picking up more tools and learn more things that it'll start leaking on to other into other industries. There's the answer. All right.
50:56
I think technology has definitely made it easier for us to create stuff, right? And I think that goes across industries from like everything, every creative industry, gaming, all the ones that we mentioned, film, whatever. But music, the difference with music and from film and I guess gaming too is the distribution, right? Music, anybody could just go up.
51:24
sign up with DistroKid, Tunecore, whatever, and put their stuff out to the public. But with film, like with movies, with shows, with that kind of stuff, you still, like, it's still a little bit gate-kept in terms of like, where people watch movies is Netflix and these different streaming services, Disney and whatever. And there's still like a barrier to entry there. But I think with the technology, the quality that regular people...
51:53
can produce will go up. So those platforms like Netflix and stuff will probably open up more. I think it's already started to happen. Open up more to like lower budget productions. So yeah, I think that's where it's gonna go. But for film and gaming and stuff, there's still a lot more dependent on these big companies with the platforms. But with music, we still can just
52:22
open up with DistroKid and just, you know, put our stuff out there and we got a chance to make it. I feel what they're saying, like, that's such a common theory that music nowadays is just like a marketing tool, which I personally don't like, but it's kind of like you got to accept reality at some point and there's not much money in streaming. So I think like picturing it as just a vehicle to...
52:52
like get an audience and like capture them into other things is like kind of how I try to see music nowadays. Obviously past like when I'm thinking about the art it's like you know much more meaningful than that but like in terms of like the business model the music isn't like the money maker itself but it's like a tool to get like two people. I think so yeah but I'm also like I'm also arguing with myself because I remember Russ like
53:17
posting something about like how much he makes off streaming. And it was like, damn, there is money in music. I don't know. It's just, you got to get to such a high level for it to become that. Well, with music, it's a low level, low barrier to entry, but you have a chance to make it at least. Like some shit could pop off and one of your songs can just go crazy, right? There's at least that chance. It's like a lottery ticket kind of situation, right? But...
53:45
With the others you can't even get in, so... Being somebody who's an artist first, and video animation producer first, and working with label artists and independent artists, and them not seeing the vision, or none of them making music, or... wanting to step out of pocket and experiment with shit, you know? Like, motherfuckers just want to listen to labels and their managers because they think they're right.
54:08
and literally none of them are making fucking music now. You feel me? So it's like, yeah, fuck this shit. I'm gonna go do my own fucking thing. I'm gonna make the music that I fucking want. I'm gonna create the visuals that I fucking want and experiment. The other thing too, it's like, when we look at Childish Gambino, right? In the way that he moves and pivots with his music, right? He treats the music like, there's this thing, right? You treat the product, right? Like a drug dealer, right?
54:38
You give them a hit, they get a taste, and they want some more. But there's a thing that Chalazis, Gambino Shares, like people are going to rip music anyway.
54:47
Like if they really love the music, they're gonna go to YouTube, SoundCloud, whatever, and rip that shit regardless. So the music is a free commodity nowadays, so I don't really see it as an end-all, be-all to make money or to live off of, right? But it's great when you can set it up to be that way, you know? There is a method to the madness, it's just not getting lost in the madness, I guess. But yeah.
55:15
Shit, being an independent artist, there's no right or wrong way to go about it nowadays, but I feel like just being authentic about who you are, what you're creating, putting yourself out there.
55:28
You know, shit, look at Van Gogh. Fuck. The man never seen a dime, but shit. He's known worldwide, right? So shit, one shit, what's my B Van Gogh in the future and not even know it. But I think the whole point of the whole thing is just create the shit that you want to fucking create. You know? I don't know, that's just me. How can we explore other models, you know, like business models ourselves?
55:57
But I will say this is like one of my most passionate topics is like figuring out how artists can convert our skills into like sustainable business models. For me, what's worked is like finding where my skills fit into like financialized systems. So for me, I did graphic design like for probably the past like three years. And I've always had this idea to like do UX design which is like web design and app design. And as soon as I like started picking up
56:25
that skill, like, like in transferring my graphic design skills into UX, there was like a lot more opportunities. Because obviously, everyone needs a website, everyone needs an app. I know Jamie probably has a lot to say on how she's been able to turn her skills into like partnerships. I know she's now moving toward a more, more independent stuff, like more of her own stuff. But I know for a long time, like she was doing like video editing or brand development, graphic design, that kind of stuff.
56:55
But yeah, I think just finding, figuring out what your skills are and how they can transfer into a system, a market that's like financialized. And also the grants, that's been a huge thing for you and I, girl, both this whole year is like applying the grants and doing sponsorships with brands. And I don't know, maybe. Okay, so.
57:17
I also recognize, I notice I work with a lot of artists, so sometimes we say things out of frustration because they get on our nerves sometimes. But a lot of times artists who are signed aren't listening to the labels and A&Rs and things because they want to over someone else is because they have to because that's their job. I have like one artist in specific that...
57:42
I really wish I could say who. I really wish I could say who, but I don't want to. I don't want to. But they got a deal, and I'm so happy for them. And we're friends, too, in real life. So you know what I'm saying? So it's like beyond. But it's been hard being their friend and also working with them.
58:07
while they have a label situation happening because they have to listen to those people. And it's not a matter of, it's business. You know what I'm saying? So it doesn't really matter if.
58:23
We love the project and we think it's great and we think, oh, like, I like them. We all fell in love with them when they were like this. Now you want them to be like that and now you want us to do this and now you want them to attract that. And now you don't think it's time for them to drop this yet.
58:42
because of this and we gotta see one more song, one more song has to go up, we have to see one more. And I'm like, damn, they are leading you on, friend. You're shelved, I don't know if you can tell or not, but you're shelved, you know what I'm saying? And it sucks, it sucks to witness in real time. But...
59:07
Nine times out of 10, they're listening to a label because they have to, because that's where their revenue is coming from, because most people have not figured out how to make their music make them money, unless they have, you know what I'm saying, unless they doing Russ numbers with Russ deals, you know what I'm saying? So I understand seeing his thing, but like...
59:29
That man's an anomaly, honestly. He wouldn't get on it. He's like, listen to everything he says, because he know what he talking about for real. As far as how can artists, I think the question was like, I just wanted to address that, because I was like, I don't want to villainize artists that have deals and have to listen to their higher-ups, because they literally have to.
01:00:00
If you're going to be of service, which is I think what Pastel was suggesting, remembering that they need the service. You don't need the money. When you start getting into needing the money, even if you do need the money, you know what I'm saying? Hell, I need the money right motherfuckin' now. Even if you do need the money.
01:00:22
You don't need the money, they need the service. Sometimes whenever you put precedent over like needing money and needing, oh I need this and I need that, you know what I'm saying, you start chasing clients and chasing bread and chasing stuff like that, you start to hold yourself out. And that's the only way I can really say it politely. You know what I'm saying, you start to putting up, you're charging too low and you know what I'm saying, and you're doing, you know what I'm saying, you're all these like low cost, but then you feel bad.
01:00:50
then you feel bad because you're an artist too. And you know what it's like, I know for me at least, I'll give a lot of people insane deals just because I know what it's like to pay it for everything out of pocket. Even though when I pay for everything out of pocket, I'm paying top dollar half of the fucking time. People, especially if I'm working with people outside of crypto, they hear that you're in crypto and they think, oh yeah, you're rich, so can you pay me full price? So you know, oh you're living in LA? Oh yeah, for sure, pay me full price. Like fuck, bro, this is rent.
01:01:20
is expensive. So I would say that to say always understand your value and if you're gonna go into giving like services which does work and does sustain, it's the same for like a long-ass time. And I'm about to hop back into it, I don't want to say unfortunate, I'm about to hop back into it just in a different way of where we're not casing clients.
01:01:46
we're remembering that they need a service and then have your muses. I personally feel like whenever you wanna get off that like I have a concept but it doesn't match my music, I have like a couple of people that I will always work with because they're my friends and we're friends in real life and like we're like these are my like brothers and my sisters, you know what I'm saying? Like I have a couple of people and I do mean a couple like two or three that I will work with to the end of time no matter what their budget is
01:02:16
consider them to be like more of my muses. And those people tend to be the people that attract the customers. And then whenever it comes to the clients, top, not top, top dollar, I'm not charging nobody like nothing crazy, but like you're paying my worth. You're not, I'm not, I'm not hoeing myself out because they need the service. I don't need the money. I can find another client.
01:02:40
They can't find another you. Make yourself irreplaceable. You know what I'm saying? They can't find another you. And even if you think they can, make, you know what I'm saying, keep working to where, and keep creating, and keep innovating into where they can't replace you. You know what I'm saying? They can't find another you. They can find someone that kinda does one, you know what I'm saying? That's how I've been able to sustain for a minute, and kept myself away from being in competition with other people who provide services. Right now though, I'm trying to shift
01:03:10
So I am going to be providing services again soon. I'm in the point of, I think, my personal artistic journey as to where I would like to lean more into partnerships and sponsorships and things like that, things that don't necessarily require me to.
01:03:32
do a lot of labor in post, but more so continue to tell my journey, continue to document our journey and then have partners and sponsors who want access to the community that I've made and the expertise that we exude. You know what I'm saying? So that's kind of where I'm at right now, trying to figure that out. Can't say I have any answers to that yet. BRB, hopefully I'll have it soon.
01:04:02
last thing I've been trying to do is find things that I want to exist.
01:04:09
A lot of times, especially, I know Web3 is my number one op right now, fuck Web3, and I really mean that, but a lot of times in Web3, we have a lot of things that we want to build or we want to see built, and we just like, oh, why don't they have this yet? Why don't we have this yet? Why don't we have that yet? I think it's time for creatives that if you see a hole in the market, fill the hole. No pun intended. That sounded crazier than I thought it was going to sound.
01:04:39
But if you see a gap in the market, fill the gap. You know what I'm saying? Even if it's the smallest little gap, because you never know, that small gap that you fill might break something and then it might lead to more sponsors and more partnerships than your own personal art is. And just learning how to remove ego from yourself and being like, okay, they like this and this is gonna fund what I love. Not everybody's gonna like what you love. You know what I'm saying?
01:05:09
I know right now, this is my last thing. Oh my gosh, this is disgusting. Wow. I know I've been kind of like sad for a minute about, not sad, I'm sad today. But I've been kind of down for a minute ever since Glass kind of left, because I feel like nothing's really taking that space of a platform that.
01:05:35
predominantly like elevates music videos and musicians in in like video format and all of these things but I kept on tuck you know I'm saying like okay I want to see this built I want to see this built I want to see this built I don't know how to build and you just got to wait for the technology to catch up to what you want to build or
01:05:57
keep digging until you find a way. Keep digging and keep talking to people and keep finding other people that are interested in what you are trying to build until you find the way. And it may take a long time. It may take longer than intended, but eventually if you keep poking at it and if you keep waiting for the technology to catch up, then you'll be able to find it. You know what I'm saying? Those are the three things I can think about as far as utilizing skills
01:06:27
outside of music that can like help find funding for your art where the music isn't paying because really all those like VCs that everyone loves so much has like their hands in a trillion different things like that's why they're able to like that's what they're able to really like sustain because they're making money off a bunch of other people's ideas so
01:06:55
I'm trying to figure out how to do that, but with my own ideas and through partnerships and sponsorships and stuff like that. That's what I'm seeing right now. Also looking into incubators, also looking into accelerator programs, just different things.
01:07:17
that can help fund what you're trying to do. Stand to yourself as something that every fucking person says and you never really know what that means until...
01:07:26
into that shit cut getting your face, and people are trying to change you, and all that stuff. And you don't realize it, but then you're like, oh, well, damn. No, I don't want to do that. I'm going to just stick to this over here. So that's what I mean when it is. That's what I think. And then low overhead is, for those who don't know, low overhead is whenever you don't have to pay out. I think it's kind of what Extinct was talking about.
01:07:52
Yeah, I think Xtinct brought something like that up. Whenever you get whatever partnerships, whatever money you get coming to you that people are paying, partnering with you, put money in your pocket to produce the product, low overhead is whenever you don't have to pay out. So I don't have to pay outward for my music videos to be made, or for my this to be made, or for my that to be made. And it's interesting, because back then, it sounds like I'm fucking 50, but whatever.
01:08:21
And back then artists weren't really used to having to pay for too much other than like maybe music videos, maybe like a wardrobe budget and a touring budget. But if we're adding on reels and TikToks and stuff like that, it's like mad expensive to be an artist. You know what I'm saying? Cause like the wardrobe doesn't triple cause now I gotta have a different outfit on every time I make a fucking, you know, real and social media packages are skyrocketed. I know some people who are charging $12,000.
01:08:51
a month for social media packages. You get what I'm saying? And so that's going to eat up your sign-in bonus more than ever before. And the sign-in bonus ain't even going to be worth it, god damn, because music is making less. You know what I'm saying? It's great. That's why the industry is collapsing right now in front of our face. That's why 50 fucking artists from Atlantic got dropped literally two days ago. And then a bunch of employees got
01:09:21
laid off and all of this stuff. So saying all that to say, do I think the artist should focus on independence? I'm not going to tell nobody what to focus on. But whatever you do, I will focus on understanding what your morals are, understanding who you are, understanding what you want to bring into the world, and then trying your hardest to have as low overhead as possible so that when that check is in your face, it's not in a point of desperation to where, like, you know, I know people who sign.
01:09:51
because they couldn't afford music videos and tours and wardrobe and like things that you can make happen if you focus on like maybe creating a production company that that in that house or a creative agency where that house
01:10:08
creates all the things that you work on. So now instead of like having to outsource, you're just investing into the production company or the creative agency that you already work with or like the media company that you already are building. So like, you know what I'm saying? Like just understanding business in a different way. And so that if you are gonna not go, if you're are gonna sign a deal, or if you are gonna get a partnership, or if you are gonna get any type of situation like that going on, it's more fruitful for you. And you're not like hyper dependent.
01:10:38
Now if you're just a really, if you got like a crazy song, it don't really matter if you're hyper dependent or not. They're probably just gonna run it up because you making them hella money. But like that's like.
01:10:49
That's the lottery. That's the lottery for real. That's the mega millions. And the mega millions is rigged sometimes. So like, if you want to think like practically, I think the best bet would be to try to create your artistry or your whatever you think as close to a business model as possible. And then whenever you get that, make sure like try to see if it works for you and keep your fucking stems, man.
01:11:19
as you possibly can and um and yeah because they nothing worse than having a project done that you love that somebody else is telling you you can't drop i'm like literally watching that with my own real eyes and it's so fucking crazy like everything finished everything done and they're like no we don't want to put the budget on pushing it and if we don't put the budget on pushing it you can't drop it well you know what i'm saying
01:11:46
But you at work, you work there. It's so crazy.
01:11:54
Damn, that sucks. That actually sounds like so freaking sad. Like honestly, I would be held sad if I was in that position. But, um, I'm going to leak that shit. I'm going to leak that shit. Not dead ass, right? Dead ass though. At that point, dead ass. Like, come on now.
01:12:16
But yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I definitely understand why people be leaking stuff and like, something like that. Like that makes sense now, cause it's like, bruh, there's no way that you're about to stop me from doing what I want. Like my, like have control over my shit that I made. Like I wanna drop, like I can't drop it cause y'all don't wanna support. Like, damn, I don't know. That would just, that would just really make me upset, but.
01:12:41
I don't know. You know that SpongeBob meme where like Squidward is like at the window and he's looking at like.
01:12:49
all the artists like SpongeBob and Patrick skipping outside. That is how a lot of signed artists feel when they go on Instagram and I'm not or TikTok and I'm being for real. Like I've I'm this is so for real. Going TikTok or Instagram and they see all of us just like doing whatever we want. You know, I'm saying like just drop in whatever, whatever, even if it's like, you know, getting like
01:13:18
that many plays and stuff like that. It's still like the freedom of actually expressing yourself which is why a lot of people got into art to begin with, you know I'm saying, to express themselves and that's a key. Let me tell you something, a key, this might be snitching on who I'm talking about but you know we live and we learn, a key note
01:13:42
If you start noticing an artist that's like recently signed or got some kind of label motion going on, you start noticing they're doing freestyles on random fucking beats, just know they can't drop. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, you start seeing them drop random freestyles on random songs.
01:14:07
It's cause they can't drop right now. They not allowed to. It's so crazy, but that's the clue. Now y'all thinking like, damn, I have seen, it's cause they not allowed, bruh, it's crazy. That's like, that's the little sneak through. Or they'll have you push one song into the fucking oblivion until it gets some real motion. And then you can be like, okay, pre-save, bruh.
01:14:36
It's crazy. That is crazy. I actually, I feel like I might know. I feel like I might know. Like I feel like now I'm thinking like, yeah, I think I know. I feel like I might know. I got two homies that's trapped. I want to free them. I want to free them so bad. But one, I'm not super as close to as I used to be, but.
01:15:00
We still chit chat sometimes. Chitty chat, as Natalie like to say. We still chitty chat sometimes. I'm like, friend, really? Oh my God. You know, that's crazy. All the time I already knew. Cause I did creative direction work. So I'm already, like, I did creative direction work for like Epic for like two years. I already know what's going on. And then they be telling people like, yeah.
01:15:27
I mean, we like you, we signed you. I don't mean to rant, but it's just, it's just since you be sitting there and be like, what? We signed you for this, cause like, we like that you did this, but now that we have you, we want to just have you do this. And then you'll see another artist that is on the same label doing the thing that they told you not to do. Because that artist already has an audience.
01:15:50
So it's crazy, it's crazy. So am I saying don't sign? I ain't gonna tell you not to sign, but just know. Then like that'll say, it's crazy to think that people can compete with them big ass labels with malicious intent all over the game plan. That's all I'm saying. Just think twice before you give up that kind of stuff because you giving up something. The machine is completely different than I think most musicians even think how it works.
01:16:20
You know what I'm saying? So with all that being said, your ideas are being stolen. I mean, just being real, your ideas are run the risk of being stolen down to the pin boards, your pin boards are on Pinterest, then mood boards, your mood boards are being looked at. I'm not joking.
01:16:40
Your pin boards are being looked at and being pulled for references. Like it's, it's, it's really that deep. You know what I'm saying? Because it's a lot of artists that have deals that already, like we already have a lot of artists. Why sign a new artist whenever I need to just get this one really dope? Because I've already pumped this much money out of them. You get what I'm saying? Oh, pump this much money in them. You know what I'm saying? So I say all that to say, if you're really as dope as you think you are.
01:17:10
Life is going to show you that you need to protect yourself.
01:17:14
And that's coming from someone who life has told time and time again to protect themselves. So like, you know what I'm saying? So do the research, do the upgraded research, talk to people, all types of shit. It's a lot of creative directors that they'll see something dope or see like an edit that they like or see certain things that they like the way it looks. And they'll just like save it on Instagram for them to look to reference later. You know what I'm saying? Just like Pinterest. And I've done that for,
01:17:44
I've like done that on a couple of teams and if I'm not on the team no more The the references is getting deleted the pin board is getting deleted The you know, I'm saying the miller note is getting deleted all of its gone You know, you're not finna you're not finna run off with like what you know I'm finna run off with my curation and then I'm not getting paid like it's all getting deleted So I definitely know this for a fact that both of us is biting down to the Pinterest down to the Instagram saves
01:18:13
Yeah, I just appreciate y'all. So yeah, until next time, next Thursday night, God willing.
[Whiz Pill Audio Podcast 79] Independence In The Age Of AI Corporate Wars